I just had a “WTF moment”…

OK it’s just too small of a world.


I have many LPGen customers & users that I’ve gotten to know only through email or maybe on a webinar at some point. Many of them are beginners at all this “make money online stuff” but some are extremely advanced underground marketers that make outrageous sums of money. Obviously I especially like talking to those people. πŸ˜‰

Anyway, one of these is a guy I’ll just call “J”. We’ve never met in person, but we’ve spoken via email and chat quite a lot. Over the couple of years I’ve known him this way, he’s shared a lot of amazing info with me. Tricks, tactics, “secrets”, etc. I know with a high degree of confidence (short of him giving me logins to his accounts) that he makes a TON of money online. Way way WAYYYY more than me or most of the other people working online in affiliate marketing.

I’m talking 5 figures DAILY.

So this is a guy that when he speaks, I listen to what he has to say. Not all of the tricks he’s shared with me are things I’m willing to put into practice… let’s just say he’s willing to push the edge of the envelope a bit farther than I will.


But that doesn’t negate the brilliance of the stuff he’s shared with me.

Now, flash forward to this past weekend. I hadn’t heard from J in quite some time… and all of a sudden he pops up again! It had been so long that we had a lot to catch up on. While we were chatting, the subject of Amish Shah’s upcoming seminar came up.

So here’s what completely stunned me:

J: been a long time
J: Amish was telling me he has been speaking with u
Jonathan van Clute: Yeah we chatted the other night
Jonathan van Clute: you guys buds?
J: underground buddy
J: shh
J: lol
Jonathan van Clute: You gonna be at Amish’s seminar?
J: im hosting it
Jonathan van Clute: no way?!
J: im black hat styles
Jonathan van Clute: oh man
J: lol
Jonathan van Clute: I gotta find a way to get my ass there
J: foo sure
J: so yeah its been hectic
J: we got some gangsta stuff in the pipes
J: just insane

So talk about a small world… J not only knows Amish and lives near him, but he’s HOSTING THE SEMINAR!!

This is crazy… these guys don’t generally crawl out of their cash caves long enough to talk to anyone about what they do.

Needless to say, I’m now feeling like I have GOT to be there. Unfortunately I won’t know for sure if I can make it until pretty last minute, as I’ve got some other commitments around the same time. But I’m definitely going to see what I can do to bend my schedule around enough to go.

In case you missed it, Amish just interviewed J “Styles” as part of his promo for the seminar. They blurred out his face so I *still* don’t know what the guy looks like… LOL… but I’m sure I’ll be able to figure out who he is at the event.


Check it out… the interview of course doesn’t have time to really dig into specifics, but I think it’s intended to give a taste of what’s going to be taught at the seminar. Sounds like it’ll be pretty good stuff.

They also say they have some sort of massive automated software to run their business, and are giving away 50 licenses for free. That sounds prtty amazing, though I’d have to see it before I could really pass judgment on it.

Oh Styles gives away a pretty slick trick right at the very end of the video so make sure you get ALL the way to the end or you might miss it. It’s regarding international traffic.

Anyway check it out and let me know what you think. I know in the last year there have been a lot more huge money claims being made… gone are the days where $100 or even $1,000 per day seemed like a good earning. Now it’s $50,000, $100,000, or more.

Do you believe these numbers? Are they for real? WHat’s your take on all this?


Oh and if you’re thinking of coming to Amish’s event, let me also add that I don’t think you should unless your business is currently earning at least $10k/month in profit. I just don’t think it will likely benefit anyone below that level. I could be wrong but that’s my feeling at the moment!


28 thoughts on “I just had a “WTF moment”…

  1. Hey Jonathan

    I didn’t get “Style’s” international traffic “trick” as it didn’t make any sense to me. He says if you’re promoting a product or offer, only enable international traffic and send them to a CPA offer via that iframe cloaking script – and he gave an example of using a dating offer. How the heck is that going to work if I was promoting a particular product – say LPGEN, and advertising in Brazil for keywords and topics related to “LPGEN”, yet I send the traffic to a dating CPA offer? How could that even come close to converting?

    Although I would love to go to the conference, I have to admit I’m rolling my eyes quite a bit at all the discrepancies between the videos that are coming out regarding this. In one of the recent launches, his own personal “bonus” upsell page mentions he makes 10 million a year in CPA, now this new video (a couple weeks later) says its 15 million a year (maybe he’s made 5 million in the last couple weeks?!). This new video mentions he spent 300k to 400k developing the hexatrack platinum software (kind of a big range isn’t it?) and nobody else has ever had any access. In the other video he says it was available last year for 5k/yr and it was 500k to develop.

    In his first video he was saying he was trying to *convince* “Styles” to come to his conference, and now we find out from your chat that Styles is actually the one hosting the conference!! Amish does mention that Styles is his business partner.

    Now having said all that, Amish’s stuff IS amazing and I’ve followed him for a couple years and he’s obviously a genius – but why in the world have such conflicting stories? At the end of the day, I don’t care if he makes 10mill or 15 mill a year, or it cost 300-400k or 500k to develop his tool, but at least be consistent for crying out loud.

    Anyway, will see what happens. I’m one of the “VIP 50 people” that get to claim a hexatrack platinum license if I buck up for the conference and apparently we have until Friday to decide until the licenses get redistributed to the other “429 people on the waiting list”

    Ironically, when I emailed them with my conference “application”, the main point I was trying to get across was I hated all the hoky-poky guru launch marketing methods going to the conference would be a breath of fresh air to hang around the “no BS crowd” lol.

    Keepin’ it real

  2. The audio was a bit hard to pick out for me – did he say sending international traffic to national offers, and what was the name of the dating site he mentioned ?

  3. Jonathan Van Clute, Is that reason you don’t want to make a commitment to go to their seminar is if they turn out to be another big, hyped AC boys in disguise? Are you playing it safe by NOT going?

  4. Michael – Awesome make sure you come say hi!

    Collin – congrats on turning everything around! What was the key factor for you?

    Tav – Here’s *my* interpretation of that trick… maybe I’m wrong but this is what I understood him to mean:

    You’re running a dating offer as far as Google is concerned but you redirect all international traffic (a Geo-IP script) to something like perfspot or whatever. He says you’ll easily break even… I’m not so sure about that personally but that’s not the important part anyway. The key is that you get a high CTR on your overall campaign, and build up a solid history. What I think he might have left out is that after a few days (or hours depending on traffic volume) you shut OFF the int’l traffic and leave only the country you actually want (like USA). So as far as Google judging your page goes, they see your normal landing page for QS purposes, but all the int’l traffic went to perfspot (or whatever).

    I’ve heard of sending int’l traffic just to boost CTR, but I hadn’t thought to redirect it to a different offer… kinda obvious once it’s pointed out, I just haven’t done it (I still hate building PPC campaigns… lol)

    I dunno about the discrepencies, I haven’t followed Amish enough to have heard whatever income claims have been made. But honestly if my CPA biz was doing 50k to 100k/day I probably wouldn’t be sure if we were on track for 10mill or 15mill this year at any given time. Well maybe *I* would cuz I’m a numbers freak but I can see how someone might not. I doubt Bill Gates knows at any given time exactly how much money is in his accounts. He has people for that! LOL

    The only discrepancy (if you can call it that) I noticed was the statement that nobody else has ever had the software. I could be wrong, but I *thought* he offered it at the PPC Classroom event last December. Or maybe that was something else.

    As for the Styles stuff… well hey, ANY time a marketer has a “Mr. X” or blurs someone’s face or bleeps out their name or whatever, I know it’s just for dramatics… so that really didn’t phase me finding out they’re actually partners anyway. So I didn’t even blink at that.

    From talking with Amish (and Styles) personally quite a bit, I get the feeling they are very “real” and they’re kinda dabbling with this whole “Internet Marketing Guru” thing. That’s totally just my opinion, so take it for what it’s worth… but I’ve decided they know enough that I’m paying very close attention to anything they say. I may not do everything they do, but I’ll definitely be following what they’re up to!

    Softshire – I don’t remember him saying an actual dating site, but the idea was to send international traffic to an offer that accetps that traffic (like Perfspot) and the “good” traffic to the main offer (dating, etc.). At least that’s how I took it.

    Looking forward to SD in a month!!


  5. MC – Actually no, for this I’ve decided that I really MUST be there. I was curious but not certain when I only knew about Amish… but with BOTH Amish AND Styles being there (since Styles is an advanced LPGen user and I’ve known him pretty much since LPGen launched), I think I’d regret it if I didn’t find the time to head down there.

    Plus San Diego is only like an hour flight from me… so it’s really not a huge amount of traveling (I’m not big on travel personally, I’m a total homebody).

    But I *am* “playing it safe” I guess you could say, by saying that I don’t believe anyone who isn’t earning at least $10k/month in PROFIT, should attend. I don’t think Amish or Styles really likes to have to slow down enough for beginners to keep up… these guys like to talk super advanced stuff, and that’s really all we’ve ever talked about. So I definitely do believe this is for advanced experienced online marketers only. That’s just based on the personal conversations I’ve had with both guys… I think beginners will feel really lost and confused.


  6. Hi, Jonathan

    I am your PPVD, LPGen-X, and KWBot customer. I want to sign up for the seminar through your link. I sent you a PM in the PPV forum. Would you please get back with me on that?

    Thanks a lot!

  7. Jonathan –

    I got sucked into the AC deal and wish I would have found PPCF first. The AC guys would take 90 minutes to discuss something that could have been covered like Gauher did in only 10-12 minutes.

    After getting my tracking set up I’m finally in the black including purchasing LPGen, SpeedPPC as well as the cost of AC and I’m net positive each month but still have trouble choosing profitable offers to promote.

    I currently have ONE that is consistently converting. The conversion rate is around 6% but for every $1.00 I spend I make $2.38 but the volume is not there.

    I think I’m finally figuring it out, but am no where near $10k per month.

    I see you as a no – nonsense, tell it like it is guy and the reason that I’m even considering going is because of the chat you posted with Amish.

    That being said, if a person was able to follow advanced stuff, would you think this seminar would be a jump start to making REAL money on CPA offers? (With what you know of Amish and Styles and what they’re doing?)

    I’m an ex NCAA Division 1 b-ball player and always saw my skills explode when I played against someone 10x better than me. Is there any difference here or am I totally wrong here?

    When I was playing ball, I had a guy who had played with the 76ers take me under his wing and that made all the difference in my skills.

    That’s what I need in internet marketing, someone who can reveal the finer points of the game. I’m tired of gurus only revealing the stuff that they were using last year which is now only marginally effective so they’re selling it to the masses, which dilutes its effectiveness even more.

    I know this seminar is not a “mentor” but in a sense, it could help me avoid some of the pitfalls of growing the business and get me to significant profitability faster. I’d like your thoughts.

  8. Jae – I didn’t get any PM from you but my link is http://www.tooltrainer.com/amish so you can just use that. Thank you! πŸ™‚

    Bret – I think you might indeed get a lot out of the seminar. It sounds like you understand that (despite the seminar’s name…) there is really no magic bullet, but by surrounding yourself with people who are WAY beyond you, you can’t help but rise to their level. I’ve certainly always seen that and it’s a big reason why I try to maintain my relationships to guys like Gauher, Amish, and others (some you’d recognize, many you wouldn’t) who make way more than I do.

    So I know I said $10k/month or more profit would be a cutoff point, but that’s fairly arbitrary. Obviously the individual person has a lot to do with it, and you sound like someone with the drive and determination to MAKE it work for you. I say come, and make sure you say hi!

    Someone asked me recently if I thought it would really be worth $4k. Truth is, “worth” is subjective. Two people may sit through the same seminar and one thinks it was a total waste of time, but the other gets ONE little nugget or idea and runs off to make millions with it. I’ve been the guy to get the nugget before, and I’ve been the guy to think it was a waste of time. But there’s no way to know which one you’ll be without going so… I say if you can handle it financially, go for it!!


  9. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree that the cost of anything is subjective. With how fast you can make (and lose) money in this business, $4k, although a little steep for the times, is probably the bargain of the century.

    BTW, if I can get in, I’ll be the tallest guy you see. Almost a 7 footer, but missed it by “that” much!

  10. Glad I found this site. I am one of the “50” with a license if I attend but I decided not to attend. The decision was made pretty easy for me when I heard the price was $4k. I am just starting out online although I undertand all the technical stuff and theory I would need to be making some big money $10Kplus month (don’t laugh that would be huge for me) to even think about this seminar. Love what Amish and Styles talk about but listening is one thing and being able to duplicate it is another.

  11. I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to be a jerk, but it seems pretty fishy that you say in your prior posts that you might not be able to attend because of prior obligations, then you say that you’ve just got to go, then – on the payment page for the seminar – there you are, a speaker at the seminar.

    Maybe its just me (or me and a few others), but it seems like you’ve been gaming us a bit, don’t you think? I liked to think that you were giving a truly objective opinion on this, but now it seems you weren’t…

    Sorry for the honesty, but I’m sure others are thinking this too…

  12. Tehcni – Yep I agree, you’re not in the right place for this yet. But stay focused and you will be in time!!

    Joshua – I actually JUST found out I’m listed as a speaker myself! Talk about a surprise! LOL Amish asked me last night if I’d be willing to speak, and I said I didn’t need to present anything formally or anything, but with how I am at events, I’m usually the guy who has something to chime in with like every 30 seconds. If you’ve watched Gauher’s PPCF2 live event you probably noticed I’m hard to shut up. πŸ˜‰

    So no, no game at all… I didn’t know Amish was going to formally include me in the event. I guess that means now I REALLY have to go get my plane ticket and arrangements taken care of. Amish offered to take my name off if I minded, but I don’t… I *am* going to be there so I’ll be glad to talk to everyone there and share whatever I can. Honestly I’m WAY honored to even be included with these guys (plus Keith Baxter is apparently gonne be there which is great, I love Keith and owe him a LOT of my current “fame” if you could call it that. So I’m really excited about this event now even more than I already was.

    Thanks for pointing out what I agree could have seemed REALLY fishy!!


  13. Hi, Jonathan

    Thank you so much for your message! I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and everything!

    I post a comment here in case you don’t see my email in time…

    I confirmed with Amish, he said it’s ok to have a person taken my seat in the seminar since I can’t go. Is it possible to find a trusted someone in your list that would be interested in going to the seminar in my spot and share the cost with me, so I can get the software?

    Thanks a lot!

  14. Hahaha!! Funny post cause I actually know those guys. Jose is my cousin and I used to work for the both of them. When they say 15m a year than they really ain’t lying at all. I remember 4 months ago they were making 30k 50k and 60k a day. It just fluciated but I’m sure they can hit 15m a year easily. I was there when magic bullet was first being built and I’m sure it’s perfected and got new stuff in it. But it was a nice system and east as fuck to use. Don’t know bout the class they are giving but if u can afford to get the magic bullet than u should. And no I don’t work for them and don’t care if u do buy from them cause we ended going our seperate ways and I’m doing my shit on a smaller scale but there system is hot and if u can get it than u should.

  15. Hey Jessie, wow too funny that you’re Styles’ cousin. Sounds like you won’t be at the event though right? Good to hear your feedback on the software, I haven’t seen it yet myself but am sure itching to check it out!


  16. Jonathan,
    delemma. I’m getting the (HTP) software and I heard Amish say it does tracking. Do I still need to take advantage of the deal on statsjunky? I’m also concerned there since it seems like you like it (stats junky) but don’t use it since it doesn’t support your traffic systems. If true, what systems does it not support?

    Also, any reason your not interested in getting HTP?

    Thanks and see you in SD.

  17. Craig – Just to be clear I am DYING to use StatsJunky as the heart of my tracking. However for now I can’t because I do almost exclusively PPV traffic, and for the moment StatsJunky only supports PPV in a rudimentary way (raw data downloading, not campaign tracking). But I’ve gone over this in extreme detail with Billy so he knows precisely what needs to be done by their developers, to support PPV networks for full keyword level tracking. I’m confident they’ll get there.

    As for HTP, I absolutely want to get my hands on it! LOL I’ve never seen it and I’m dying to do so… I just know so little about it that I’m not saying much. Hopefully I’ll find out a lot more in SD from Amish directly (and we’ve already talked casually about some integration between HTP and LPGen so… I think an interesting future is in store!)


  18. Daaaaaaamnnnnnn yeah boy!

    I’ve been doing direct linking, decided to try having a simple landing page built (simple design but complex programming with CPA pop unders and passing zip and state etc through) and the experience has turned into a design nightmare.

    I’d LOVE a solution like HTP that links to LPG. Almost fully automated process. Just need an auto campaign generator…HMMM ( ppc anyway).

    Who teaches intro ppv since I’m hearingore and more? GC’s angle is pricey to start and Amit doesn’t cover it does he?


  19. For beginners, PPC Classroom is a good way to get the basics without spending a fortune up front:


    Gauher gets more into the advanced stuff and is always on the bleeding edge, testing new crazy strategies and reporting on what works or doesn’t. But PPCC seems to be really geared towards getting the PPC newbie up to speed and making money. Gauher kinda jumps in with a “you better already know what PPC is and how basically to do things…” He doesn’t cover FTP, adding a domain to a server, installing scripts, etc. He just dives into the deep end. πŸ™‚ Amish definitely prefers to stick with the advanced stuff, doesn’t seem to have a ton of patience for the newbie questions LOL

    So yeah, probably PPCC is where you start, and maybe in 3 to 6 months you’ll be ready and profitable enough to jump on the PPCF train!


  20. Okay, 2 q’s:
    I have no tracking, I’m new. Using Google content network currently and SEO/blogs. Getting HTP. Should I get SJ? Or does HTP provide this? Thought you might ask Amish since the tie in and interest on your site here! πŸ˜‰

    statsjunky dirct track issue. Since many CPA firms are on DT is there a manual work around that the SJ guys have created? (ie nightly download and upload into stats junky) or something? I’m new to this, but the CPA firm I’m with are DT so not really justifiable? Unless I tie into future efforts with HTP’s broader affiliate offers base?

    When is a good deal a good deal…when you can use it. I’m trying to understand how I could use it?

    Thanks for your time, it is appreciated.


  21. Well Craig, you’re right about a good deal only being good if you can use it. If you’re strictly using DT networks, then SJ (for now) won’t work for you. Until DT lifts their ban on automated scripts or makes an exception for SJ, the SJ guys have to play by the rules and obey. πŸ™ It really stinks that this is the case but… it is what it is.

    I know next to nothing about what HTP has in it honestly, I’ve asked Amish to let me have a look at it and he’s said he will, but I know he’s going crazy preparing for the event right now so I haven’t been breathing down his neck about it. πŸ˜‰ I’m hopeful that I’ll get to see it before the event, but regardless of when it happens I’ll definitely give you my full opinion as soon as I can.

    So as far as SJ goes for you… tough call. My hunch would be that you won’t be only promoting DT offers for long, and at that point SJ might become very valuable to you (or if you already run Clickbank, Commission Junction, or any of the hundreds of non-DT networks SJ supports).

    I guess it comes down to your pocketbook. I never suggest buying tools you can’t afford unless they are absolutely INTEGRAL to what youa re doing RIGHT NOW, and you can make that gamble pay you back fast. I’m all about calculated risk, but only you can make that calculation for yourself!

    Hope that helps… πŸ™‚


  22. As a speaker next month, Keith is working some promo/ free website deal for attendees. It would seem a great time to pre-launch LPG 2 and make 1 template for each attendee or some such for the niches Amish is giving out. That seems to be a killer way to get a core target market influenced, in the mood , and add to your email list.

    Not that I’m trying to add to the goodie basket at all… ;0)

  23. Hi again, Jonathan

    I sent you an email on 7/27 with subject line “Your seat at Amish’s seminar”. Would you please check your email and get back with me as soon as you seen this?

    I need you to help either contact Charles or find another person with the deal. πŸ™‚

    Thanks a lot!

  24. Just saw the email Jae, thanks for pointing it out!

    Craig – Interesting idea. Only problem is I’m a lousy designer… but maybe I could offer to “LPGenify” 1 offer page for every attendee for their specific niche. They give me the page they want to use, I’ll add tokens and adjust links or whatever else is needed to make it work properly in LPGen.

    Will ponder this… πŸ˜‰


  25. Hi, Jonathan

    Thanks for your last message. I sent you another email, please let me know if you have any update on the subject.

    Thanks a lot!

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